tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post6989117217116002593..comments2024-03-15T08:55:29.800-04:00Comments on The Musical Priest: I Can't Believe...Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01087811856300842855noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-53727348067178485132013-03-26T09:18:10.863-04:002013-03-26T09:18:10.863-04:00I'm late to the comment party, but I come acro...I'm late to the comment party, but I come across this attitude so often in Ireland. I'm reminded of a quote from Francis de Sales:"While those who give scandal are guilty of the spiritual equivalent of murder, those who take scandal-who allow scandals to destroy their faith-are guilty of spiritual suicide." In previous times I was guilty of having such an attitude, but my aunt who is a religious sister put me right and told my fifteen year old self simply that "God comes first, the rules after". It may have taken over five years, but the penny has truly dropped, and it was only when I began to do my own research that I arrived at this point. It is no longer a case of 'I can't believe this teaching or that', but now its 'the Church teaches something I find difficult, I must learn why it is taught'. I absolutely urge people to make use of resources available to them within the Church, and make sense of the 2000 years of wisdom available to you within Catholicism.Joanne Ni Riainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-88713284439556140892012-10-28T09:20:42.125-04:002012-10-28T09:20:42.125-04:00As a gay person, former seminarian who struggles m...As a gay person, former seminarian who struggles mightily with the Churches current posture and direction on many teachings, I have chosen stay on the vine not so much perhaps as a seed bearing fruit but as a thorn on the branch as it were, pricking the forces of self righteous satisfaction, prideful triumphalism and displaced persecutory complexes that vex the vine. For I trust that, despite claims to the contrary, the Church evolves and the journey is not over.<br />Many of the greatest theologians, thinkers and saints within the Church were condemned as heretical and disordered in their own time only to be vindicated sometimes centuries afterword – Abelard, Aquinas, Theresa of Avilla, John of the Cross, Lacordaire, Yves Congar, Teilhard deChardin and Hans Urs Van Balthazar to name just a few. The individual human spirit operates faster than the institution ever will and is only around for a minute period of time comparatively. The progressive Catholic thinker will almost always find him/her self ahead of the institutional curve perhaps by centuries. Such is the frustrating nature of prophetic witness. But the Holy Spirit guides the whole of the Church, individual seekers, institutions, saints, sinners, prophets and buffoons. I, in good conscience, prudent humility and – most of all Charity, will trust in God’s mercy, be “Israel” (God Struggles) for the Church and press on in the hope always of a better future for the Church and all Her messed up progeny.<br />jamezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12910320855332238203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-73808444919960740732012-10-27T10:21:01.203-04:002012-10-27T10:21:01.203-04:00I think you're quite right. Sadly, a good numb...I think you're quite right. Sadly, a good number of clergy have the notion that 'they' are the Church and represent the axis around with the Church should spin. How wrong! Just as each one of us must confront our own de-centered position so, too, must our leadership. It's incumbent upon all of us to remember that it is not 'I' but the 'Most High' who is at the center of the Church. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01087811856300842855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-30670868684984216132012-10-27T08:32:24.496-04:002012-10-27T08:32:24.496-04:00First, I thought this was a great post and I agree...First, I thought this was a great post and I agreed with you on many points. But, as someone who has also struggled, (but hung in there until very recently) can I offer this: I have seen a similar "toddler-like posture from "the Church" in the form of my parish priests. Their response to my frustrations and struggles has been - "hey - this is how it is" and make almost no attempt to assist me with my true attempts to integrate real questions. <br /><br />I certainly don't think I expect the Church to conform to my way but I think I do need to be spiritually fed and I think that is why many Catholics have left in recent years. We are wrestling with complex issues and we need to hear more than "this is the way it is."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-7268188483898201612012-10-25T18:30:07.020-04:002012-10-25T18:30:07.020-04:00I agree with "Anonymous." Getting to the...I agree with "Anonymous." Getting to the point of "...therefore I am simply leaving..." could have resulted from years of public or private struggle. You may just be seeing the tail of the kite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-42763132969854667672012-10-25T05:48:42.104-04:002012-10-25T05:48:42.104-04:00I think one's past experience of the church ha...I think one's past experience of the church has a bearing on this kind of thing. Some people grew up in a Catholic church that was basically loving and affirming and hopeful. Their base experiences with the church were positive, which (as they grow older and may struggle with particular individuals or doctrines) remain there as a reminder of the good that they can continue to find in the church. Their basic good experiences make the struggle seem worthwhile. <br /><br />I grew up in a Catholic church that had me convinced (by the age of ten) that I was going to hell. This was a conviction that stayed with me for many years. My base experience of the church was mostly guilt and fear, with a fair amount of shame and anger mixed in. When I began to intellectually disagree with various things the church says, I didn't feel compelled to stay and struggle with the institution, because I didn't have any of the basic good experiences that might have made me want to stay. <br /><br />If one's emotional sense of the church is warm, and one's larger view of it is that it is a positive force in the world (despite its flaws) one will always have a hard time understanding people who never felt that. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com