tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post4045299303810051302..comments2024-03-15T08:55:29.800-04:00Comments on The Musical Priest: Notes on a ScandalAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01087811856300842855noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-43443305356233995862013-04-12T07:53:06.287-04:002013-04-12T07:53:06.287-04:00From a Victim's Assistance Counselor quoted in...From a Victim's Assistance Counselor quoted in the John Jay Report: <br /><br />I believe that the ability to have access to the children was key. The issue of a trusted person in power kept children from reporting. Fear that the victims would not be believed or would hurt their parents was often an impediment for reporting the abuse. Often gifts, trips, and alcohol were involved. Often the victims that were target were children already vulnerable because of family issues. The parents trusted the clergy and did not recognize the signs. (CC, 116)<br /><br />It's the last line that is important: they didn't recognize. They saw but did not understand. The blindness was to something they, in many cases, couldn't comprehend: they had no language for it. Yet blindness is blindness: something was there but not seen. The whole point of ongoing education is to make us, as a community, sensitive and alert to these issues. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01087811856300842855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-78628873683659964762013-04-12T00:17:09.180-04:002013-04-12T00:17:09.180-04:00As someone who has lived through the tragic and tr...As someone who has lived through the tragic and traumatic process of wound and healing, wound and healing in coming to terms and dealing with sexual abuse in the family, the heat in this discussion indicates to me that we have only begun to peal the onion here. I'd say that the community aspect is huge in both our ability to wantonly deny, neglect and look the other way and our capacity to support each other, heal each other and overcome denial and neglect - face these demons and transform ourselves beyond them.<br />We can begin by Listening with an empathetic and heartfelt ear. Call a spade and spade but be willing to reassess the imbroglio. Fasten your seat belts, it gonna be bumpy ride. But if we play our card right - the cards of forgiveness, humility, fortitude, indeed every virtue in the canon will be tested - above all Love for each other as beautiful and broken children of Christ; then we as a Church may someday come to a place where we realize that we can make lemonade out of sewage...<br />jamezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12910320855332238203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-56987731714455444632013-04-11T19:53:55.338-04:002013-04-11T19:53:55.338-04:00I never ceases to amaze me that people post anonym...I never ceases to amaze me that people post anonymously. <br /><br />I'm glad to engage in debate: it's just that, in order to debate, one has to be one the same page. "Comment box" conversations are pointless and go nowhere. <br /><br />I find it amazing that anonymous responders think they're "pretty darn intelligent" and worthy of engagement. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01087811856300842855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-31695952807607189672013-04-11T19:47:12.445-04:002013-04-11T19:47:12.445-04:00It never ceases to amaze me that people who set up...It never ceases to amaze me that people who set up blogs (thinking in their heart of hearts that they are pretty darn intelligent and worth reading) then take offense when challenged, by saying "I don't want to debate in the comments section" when someone disagrees with them. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-7185859324449934492013-04-11T08:32:38.964-04:002013-04-11T08:32:38.964-04:00I'm not really keen on carrying on protracted ...I'm not really keen on carrying on protracted Comment Box conversations, but let me point something out: how would the institution know unless someone had reported? It's not like the bishops have priests on a leash. <br /><br />What you're reacting to, and what I'm not saying, is some sort of blame on the parish. The findings of the study implicate a triangular structure of abuse. I'm basically in agreement with this. This doesn't mean that the whole parish is involved only that, in general, certain signs or indications of abuse were probably noticed and not reported (for any number of oppressive or cultural reasons). Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01087811856300842855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-24886667020132634032013-04-11T08:23:25.026-04:002013-04-11T08:23:25.026-04:00I totally agree that there were and are many situa...I totally agree that there were and are many situations where people choose to be willfully blind to abuse and that by doing so are culpable and should be held accountable. It's the situations where only the abuser and the institution know of the abuse and the latter takes action to cover up the abuse where I contend that it is inappropriate to speak of a "community abus(ing) a child." in so saying, I do not have a vendetta against the church. People who are parishioners in parishes where church property is being sold and people are being asked to contribute to settlement payments to victims of clergy abuse where those parishioners had no knowledge of that abuse, is where I am coming from. The suggestion that such parishioners were part of the community which abused the children rankles, and is, I think, unjust.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-33062076692408795692013-04-11T06:49:31.430-04:002013-04-11T06:49:31.430-04:00Anonymous,
Again, I'm not denying that there ...Anonymous,<br /><br />Again, I'm not denying that there were cultural factors at play that gave rise to a particularly insidious form of cultural silence/blindness. It's still present: one needn't look much further than Horace Mann, Penn State, or any of myriad cases involving those who "turned a blind eye" out of loyalty to or desire to preserve the reputation of the institution. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01087811856300842855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-24694897122505888962013-04-11T03:55:41.888-04:002013-04-11T03:55:41.888-04:00*On a basic level* sorry*On a basic level* sorryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-26611139062120268652013-04-11T03:54:11.422-04:002013-04-11T03:54:11.422-04:00Anonymous seems to have some personal vendetta aga...Anonymous seems to have some personal vendetta against the church. The "Crime triangle" is prevalent in all sorts of sexual misconduct cases. <br /><br />Speaking first hand,as a college student, I could not tell you how many times I've been at a party and have seen a guy trying to take a wasted girl home(obvious sexual assault in some cases) and all the while, friends and bystanders are just sitting there watching/letting this happen. <br /><br />Now, I am not saying the cases are synonymous, but they are at the very least similar at a basic level. You would be surprised how much a community will let an individual get away with. The community is as much to blame as the church.<br /><br />Hope you got the gist of the second paragraph, if not i can clarify any issues. Also, why posting anonymously? It's tacky as hell.<br /><br />-Ian MooreAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-59107638232924689552013-04-10T22:48:35.421-04:002013-04-10T22:48:35.421-04:00Yes, and who lead the community to believe that pr...Yes, and who lead the community to believe that priests could do no wrong? Why was that housekeeper silent? Are you suggesting that in that climate anyone would have believed her, particularly church authorities had she said anything? Blame is not equal, you say. I say, there is no blame apart from where it obviously falls. It is a complete an utter cop-out to assign any "blame" whatsoever to the "housekeeper". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-64486735002577526392013-04-10T19:37:55.823-04:002013-04-10T19:37:55.823-04:00On this, I must disagree. I think it's a natur...On this, I must disagree. I think it's a natural defense mechanism to look to a simple "Perpetrator-Victim" binary system. The report cites a "Crime Triangle" which, as I mentioned, does implicate the blind-eye a community can turn. <br /><br />Housekeepers who saw Father escorting a minor to his room; principals suspicious of a teacher's overly keen interest in one or another student; parents who had a suspicion but couldn't believe anything untoward was happening. This is not, as I said, a Catholic problem: it's a social problem and the traits we find within the Catholic settings are common to those of other places (schools, Boy Scouts, etc.). <br /><br />There are, of course, cultural reasons people remained silent. The vaulted position of clergy, particularly, led to complicit silence. We do no good, however, in saying "Oh, it's all the fault of the bishops" when many were blind bystanders. The blame, or involvement, is not equal. It is, however, present: people did turn blind eyes. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01087811856300842855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-21708309268588663792013-04-10T19:00:00.028-04:002013-04-10T19:00:00.028-04:00"it takes a community to abuse a child"...."it takes a community to abuse a child". Are you kidding? Not your words I realize, but the cold hard facts are that faithful members of the "community" would have been horrified had they known that priests were abusing children in their communities. "The community" neither caused, contributed in any way, or condoned the abuse because they did not know about it, unlike the bishops and other members of the clerical hierarchy, who in some, perhaps many cases, knew exactly what was going on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8160415.post-33959912233892162432013-04-10T09:08:50.168-04:002013-04-10T09:08:50.168-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.johanes Ahttp://www.jakarta-hotels.netnoreply@blogger.com